Sunday, December 28, 2014

Expert chat session- question and answer on Labour laws and compliance- HR shapers group 2 discussion








As said in my earlier article, statutory compliance is a very important aspect in any organisation. Unfortunately, our MBA syllabus or even LLB do not teach us enough about the subject matter and it is a continuous learning subject matter.

In this discussion of HR Shapers, participant members have asked questions about:
1. Payment of Gratuity Act
2.Payment of Bonus Act
3. Bombay Shops and Establishment Act
4. Prevention of sexual Harassment at Workplace Act
5. Payment of Wages Act
6. Standing orders Act
7. Provision related to LTA
8. Provision related to leave encashment
9. Provision related to various other aspect of other business laws.

I hope all the readers will greatly benefit from this discussion. 





[25/12 11:24] Ashish Gakrey: Guys, if any1 of you missed ouro HR Shapers Express Chat Session calendar...here it is...request to block the dates n looking frward your active participation...............                          
HR Shapers - Pioneer in Whatsapp Chat Session with Guest Speaker

HR Shaper Whatsapp Guest Speaker Express Chat Session Calendar
# 26 Dec - Pratik Vaidya, SME on HR and Labour Laws Compliances  and MD - Karma Mgt Consultants  - www.karmamgmt.com | 

http://comply4hr.karmamgmt.com 



# 10 Jan 2015 - Sundara Rajan, SME on Assessment Tools and Dir. - Thomas Assessments India and Market Search India - 




# 2nd week of Jan 2015- Poorvi Chothani , SME on immigration | Managing Partner, (Advocate, India; Attorney, NY, USA; Solicitor, England and Wales)




# 17 Jan 2015 - Dr Saundarya Rajesh,  SME on Diversity and Inclusion and Founder – President, AVTAR Career Creators & FLEXI Careers 
# Jan / Feb 2015 - Dr TV Rao, Chairman, TVRLS


Happy to share with all of you that this is our 2nd Express Chat Session
HR compliance is essential for any organization to be successful in today’s legal environment. One of the most crucial roles of the HR department is to keep the Company safe from any kinds of legal troubles. The employer and specially HR Dept need to ensure that all compliance must be taken care and followed with no compromise to protect company interest. Noncompliance always leads to unanticipated and big trouble for  the company.

HR Shapers Express Chat Session

Date: Friday, 26 Dec 2014
Time: 9am to 9pm 
Topic: HR and Labour Laws Compliances
Guest Speaker: Pratik Vaidya, SME for HR and Labour Laws Compliances and MD - Karma Management Consultants Pvt Ltd -http://www.karmamgmt.com/ | 
Free Registration for encyclopaedia of HR Compliance - www.comply4hr.com .....

Special thanks to Pratik Vaidya, who already addressed to our Whatsapp HR Shapers both groups in the month of July 2014 - launch of our express chat....that day HR Shaper became Pioneer in Whatsapp Chat Session....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...
Request to both 200 Whatsapp groups members to block this date,time and get the maximum benefit out of this...Looking forward to your active participation as well....


[25/12 21:46] Participant 1: Good Ashish...





[26/12 07:56] Ashish Gakrey: I am sure that you all guys try 2 get the maximum benefit from these chat sessions...and here we are getting all these SME for 8-9hrs (9am to 9pm)...and it’s not so easy for a speaker to spend almost entire day with us...its kind of dedicated workshop for us...and not all used to Whatsapp the way we are. Imagine they may face 1question from each 1 member so 200 questions from 200 HR Shapers and perhaps 400 questions, 2 answer in 8-9hrs...as said Pratik already done it earlier in July month for 100 members, but for rest 4...it would be perhaps 1st time...let us help them to make all these chat session’s success as its all for us to share their expertise  and knowledge...


[26/12 08:06] Participant 2: Very important function and many  modern HR guys feel its not part of HR !


Eager to see/read the responses!


[26/12 08:43] Participant 3: Sure Ashish and many happy returns of the day Dr. reddy.


[26/12 08:52] Ashish Gakrey: In a moment...express chat to be started with Pratik Vaidya MD - Karma Management Consultants Pvt Ltd -http://www.karmamgmt.com/ | 
Free Registration for encyclopaedia of HR Compliance - www.comply4hr.com .....



Topic - HR and Labour Laws Compliances....

[26/12 08:59] Participant 2: Welcome Pratik.


[26/12 09:07] Participant 4: Hello Pratik and a warm welcome to this session


[26/12 09:07] Participant 1: Welcome Pratik


[26/12 09:07] Participant 4: Got a quick question for you at the start of this session.



[26/12 09:08] Participant 4: Ashish - shall we?



[26/12 09:08] Participant 1: Start...


[26/12 09:08] Participant 4: 1- Many small/ mid size companies while driving the re-balancing & re-structuring exercise are not fully compliant. What challenges do u see and recommend the aspects these organisations should take care from a  compliance perspective while driving these exercises? In fact, they are aware of these challenges and exposures, but are just ignorant. Your view and guidance please.



[26/12 09:08] Participant 5: Welcome Pratik to the session


[26/12 09:09] Ashish Gakrey: Yup, but just wait...some user friendly guild line to share so chat can go smoothly...



[26/12 09:09] Participant 4: Sure...shall wait, although I have asked already :-)


[26/12 09:10] Ashish Gakrey: No problem.



[26/12 09:10] Participant 6: Good morning and welcome Pratik



[26/12 09:11] Participant 1: Ashish, I suggest one question at one time or anything related to that.



[26/12 09:11] Participant 1: Then we can move to other questions



[26/12 09:11] Participant 7: Welcome Pratik


[26/12 09:20] Ashish Gakrey: Guys Very Good Morning...welcome to the second Express Chat...fortunately 1st Express Chat guest speaker was Pratik himself...so big big thanks to him.



[26/12 09:25] Ashish Gakrey: This chat is open as Pratik is comfortable with that anybody can question anytime...since, I have added him in both groups so he may settle down to answer your questions in some time...so have patience...you can remind him in a group if A don't come in next 1-2hours...with last time experience in July he was very quick...no personal message to him otherwise he will be de-focused.



[26/12 09:25] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hello all



[26/12 09:25] Participant 4: Good morning Partik- here is my question - Many small/ mid size companies while driving the re-balancing & restructuring exercise are not fully compliant. What challenges, exposures do you see and recommend the aspects these organisations should take care from a compliance perspective while driving these exercises? In fact, they are aware of these challenges and exposures, but are just ignorant.



[26/12 09:34] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Please note that while restructuring salaries , depending upon wages bracket - PF , ESI , Gratuity and Bonus gets affected . All these acts are against reducing benefits given to the employee once the structure is set . Care to be taken on the applicability and eligibility of above while restructuring

[26/12 09:26] Participant 6: Welcome Pratik



[26/12 09:26] Participant 6: Question: In your experience - What compliance areas that companies needs to strengthen focus on towards greater compliance ? Is there a variation in nature of such areas across mature, growth & startup companies ?



[26/12 09:27] Ashish Gakrey: If possible save your Whatsapp name as yours and company just for today so it will be helpful and easy for him to understand belong to which company....



[26/12 09:27] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Good Morning , first of all thanks to Ashish for inviting me in unique chat session . Would try to answer as many questions/  queries posted .
I don't consider myself an expert on HR and HR compliance, but believe that one gains knowledge by sharing knowledge



[26/12 09:27] Ashish Gakrey: Already started...over to you Pratik..



[26/12 09:29] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Since most of the numbers are not there with me , please give intro or at least the name of the person asking questions , this will help me to address in a better way.



[26/12 09:30] Participant 4: Hi Pratik - this is participant 4 and I am associated with  a leading MNC. I lead the compensation & benefit effort for India/ South Asia.




[26/12 09:31] Pratik, Guest Speaker: @Participant 4 , to answer your query , the biggest issue or challenge while restructuring are compromising on salary structures
[26/12 09:31]


Govind, Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Good morning Pratik . My question is about Gratuity Act. The Gratuity Act is silent about mandatory insurance. What is the scenario now? Gratuity Act has mentioned that the insurance will be mandatory once notified, but I never found such notification from Government.

[26/12 09:39] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Yes section 4 states about compulsory insurance , since insurance is the subject matter of solicitation , it is left to the organizations to take the insurance from LIC or similar or provide in the  Balance Sheet on actuarial value.
In my experience , Insurance taken is always better than creating gratuity fund and investment as per RBI norms



[26/12 09:42] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: I agree to Pratik but the Act says it will be mandatory once notified but I never saw such notification. I agree taking insurance protects employees but organisation also prefer to making provision under AS 26, so not having an insurance result into non compliance? My next question related to the same is in the case of death of employees how gratuity to be calculated? Only for the no of years completed or till the retirement age?



[26/12 10:02] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Govind - in case of death , as per provisions you need to only pay the number of years of service in your Organisation and not till retirement at all,

[26/12 09:31] Ashish Gakrey: You don't need to type intro every time...
[26/12 09:31] Participant 6: Participant 2 Misra, Aditya Birla - Q: In your experience - What compliance areas that companies needs to strengthen focus on towards greater compliance ? Is there a variation in nature of such areas across mature, growth & startup companies ?



[26/12 09:32] Ashish Gakrey: Feel free to do introduction..it’s open...enjoy...




[26/12 09:35] Participant 2: Suggest friends to go slow and give time to Pratik read, understand and reply suitably. If we bombard with Qs he may miss some.
- Participant 2



[26/12 09:35] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Participant 2 good question , would come back to you after addressing  Gratuity query


[26/12 09:36] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Thanks Participant 2



[26/12 09:36] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I will try to do justice and answer as much as possible



[26/12 09:37] Participant 6: No hurry Pratik. Thanks. I can understand across 2 groups q's will be loads


[26/12 09:38] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Labour law is one of the most complicated subjects and getting Pratik is like a getting hidden gem so everybody will try to get as much benefit as possible. Bombarding of questions expected :)






[26/12 09:39] Ashish Gakrey: Guys just one request since its all related to HR Compliances...your questions have to be very crisp, smart,sharp n not very open ended for which one can do google...be specific...

[26/12 09:42] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Agree to Ashish
[26/12 09:43] ‪+91 98198 52675: Thanks Ashish


[26/12 09:44] Participant 2: Pratik...from your experience which are the top 3 non compliances seen in Service Industry specially IT/ITES as far as Labour laws are concerned?



[26/12 09:44] participant 8: Welcome Pratik .  Can IT employees can be considered  workmen ? And as per law should we pay overtime as IT company and not asking this from industry  practice



[26/12 09:45] Participant 3: Very good question Participant 2.. Was about to ask the same..



[26/12 09:45] Pratik, Guest Speaker: @Participant 2, the labour laws remains same once the headcount crosses 20 or more , be it startups or mature Organisation . The degree and complexity increases to manage compliances . The best of startups fail and ignore HR and HR related compliances and concentrate on expanding business , they have major issues in compliance later on .



[26/12 09:46] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Participant 2 - Working Hours , Compliance of vendors , women working at night and giving transport , sexual harassment
[26/12 09:47] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Who's asked the question on IT employees ?



[26/12 09:49] participant 9: Participant 9 here: my query the question is can knowledge workers be classified as labour? Would they not be covered under Contracts Act? As these days all employees have all terms stated in the appointment / contract for employment?



[26/12 09:57] Pratik, Guest Speaker: The definition of employee / workman / contract labour differs from act to act




[26/12 09:58] participant 8: Hi Pratik  participant 8 here asking about workmen  in IT
[26/12 10:00] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Employee or worker under Shop and establishment covers each and every type of person except members of family of the board

Workman / contract labour under ID Act or Contract Labour Act is restricted to the nature of work the person is Doing , irrespective of salaries paid 
A software engineer being paid 1 lac is a workman since he is doing skilled job . Only exception to this are supervisory , administrative or managerial cadre of work being done by those persons



[26/12 10:00] participant 10: Participant 10 from A leading FMCG and manufacturing company- Manufacturing.companies hire huge number.  temporary workmen. They are given few days break after 6 months and rehired. While cos. comply with all statutory requirements, will frequent rehiring of the same person amount to perennial nature of work? Can they claim for permanency based on this?







[26/12 10:03] participant 11: Insurance for Gratuity is good, but does not give tax benefit as a trust - Participant 11


[26/12 10:04] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hi Participant 10 , there are many case laws where employees or workman CANNOT claim permanency , however most important is that what are the contracts and how it is framed , if it is proved that the contracts between principal employer and Contractor is sham and this is routine arrangement to avoid permanency then you ma


[26/12 10:04] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Y have trouble
[26/12 10:04] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I agree with you Participant 11




[26/12 10:05] participant 10: Pratik these are temps.on co.roll and not contract employees.



[26/12 10:06] Participant 2: Than more dangerous if they are doing same job i think, which they can establish



[26/12 10:08] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Exactly . There are case laws where you can have FTC with such employees . Please note all compliances and benefits under PF , ESI , Bonus , etc would be applicable except Gratuity.



[26/12 10:08] participant 11: Its about the job and not the temp staff....the job can not be the same as permanent staff or else has to be seasonal, or due to spike in workload.....Pratik, correct me if not



[26/12 10:08] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Participant 10 what is the intent of keeping on temporary basis ???
[26/12 10:09] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Yes - the nature of work of temp and FTE is same , they need to be given same salaries and same benefits , else a violation.



[26/12 10:10] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Temps on a company roles are as good as employees


Govind: Only advantage is, it is easier to downsize and separate them.

[26/12 10:10] participant 10: Since they are not highly skilled and they are hired for some long run projects, the Co. Can't afford to have perm.people in huge nos.



[26/12 10:11] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Please outsource on third party rolls rather than keeping it as FTC , that's much safer


[26/12 10:12] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hope all queries answered till now . Please put again if missed
[26/12 10:14] participant 10: Yes thanks
[26/12 10:15] Pratik, Guest Speaker: You can always approach Karma for temp staffing



[26/12 10:15] participant 10: yup


[26/12 10:16] participant 9: Participant 9 here: you mentioned about violation of working hours as among the top violations by services companies, could you state what is the non compliance in general?



[26/12 10:16] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Friends please note , please go and register yourself for FREE on www.comply4hr.com

It's an entire encyclopedia of Labour Laws


[26/12 10:19] Pratik, Guest Speaker: As per Shops & Establishment Act , all are employees other than family members , overtime and working hours are part of provisions . It is really sad that laws are archaic in nature

Ensure atleast the floor level call centre executives are given overtime benefits , else it will be non compliant - this is the industry practice.


[26/12 10:20] participant 9: Participant 9 here: generally they take compensatory offs should that not suffice?



[26/12 10:29] participant 11: Hi Pratik - what has been the industry practice to calculate Minimum Wages, is it only Basic and DA or including other allowances too ?
[26/12 10:30] Participant 2: Another my observation is many cos dont bother to renew Shops n Est licence, if they do, they forget to show increased number of employee and get caught ! 
( with many start up companies)..
Pratik may add to it...



[26/12 10:32] Pratik, Guest Speaker: As per government notification - it's Basic and DA , in Maharashtra , there is additional component of min 5% HRA
[26/12 10:34] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Any changes in the certificate ,whether Change in directors , authorised managers , headcount , etc needs to be change and intimated by filling Form E. Industry practice however is quarterly.



[26/12 10:35] participant 11: So Basic + DA + HRA......correct ?



[26/12 10:35] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Yes Participant 11 - the latest minimum wages is on www.comply4hr.com.



[26/12 10:36] participant 11: Thanks....I do have it...I had a difference of opionion with my HK legal team...so was confirming :-)



[26/12 10:39] participant 12: Thank u pratik for sharing the link on labor law encyclopaedia


[26/12 10:40] participant 11: The another qn I have is abt Transport for female employees....as per Shop Act, we need submit an application to get the exemption however, the IT Act have exempted IT and ITES organisation....is there a need to submit the application for exemption ?


[26/12 10:42] participant 12: Hi Pratik – I am an HRBP- question - does labor law have a detailed law for all inclusive employees - will I get that on comply4hr



[26/12 10:42] Pratik, Guest Speaker: There is notification no . 476 applicable to software / IT / ITES Organisation which has provision for intimation and getting clearance from DLC



[26/12 10:43] participant 11: Under which Act ?


[26/12 10:43] Pratik, Guest Speaker: @ HRBP I did not comprehend your query
[26/12 10:44] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Bombay Shops & Establishment act , since women working at night exemption is under Sec 33(3) of the said act , share your mail id for notification



[26/12 10:45] participant 11: participant 11.
[26/12 10:45] participant 13:  you can't restrict upto Basic+da, many famous supreme court decision r in practice



[26/12 10:45] participant 13: Section 2H very vast to apply as far as MW is concern


[26/12 10:45] participant 11: That would be really great...thanks a lot


[26/12 10:46] participant 12: Apologies - does labor law have a guideline/law for all differently abled employees


[26/12 10:47] Ashish Gakrey: Gud Q participant 12

.
[26/12 10:56] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Minimum Wages is always Basic + DA + HRA . What you are referring is consolidated wages under payment of wages act with all allowances



[26/12 10:57] Pratik, Guest Speaker: As per notification is concerned , the minimum wages in maharashtra is Basic + DA . Additional component of HRA is under Maharashtra Minimum HRA Act



[26/12 10:58] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Yes Ali under PF / ESI /PT it does have benefits and exemptions for them



[26/12 10:59] participant 12: Thank you pratik –



[26/12 10:59] Pratik, Guest Speaker: - hope your query is answered , else be specific I your query which will help me to answer it better . There are no Supreme Court judgments justifying wages more than minimum wages notified as minimum wages . I would be keen to learn if there are



[26/12 11:02] participant 11: Pratik - can PF office levy penalty to the Orgn, if the monthly contribution is not cleared by the bank by the due date ?




[26/12 11:02] Pratik, Guest Speaker: HRBP - please share your email id for the benefits for differently abled ppl



[26/12 11:04] Participant 4: Pratik - many orgs have salary structures like basic + flexi benefit plan (FBP). Where HRA is a part of FBP - but DA is not.. How shd we define and comply with the wage enhancement guidelines issued recently for PF and ESIC?



[26/12 11:04] participant 13: Supreme courts decision still in practice i contest and close 100+ inspection report by Rlc, Glo in my previous company



[26/12 11:04] participant 13: Airfreight v/s govt of Karnataka 1997



[26/12 11:06] participant 14: Hi Participant 14 here from ABC Electric 
Q: what could be the provision for those who are working at factories, construction sites etc but not covered under ESI act 1953 ? And what are those benefits?


[26/12 11:17] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Shashi airfreight judgment is more for organizations having basic much less than as specified under minimum wages but having gross much more than minimum wages . Once you have your wages more than minimum wages , not necessary to have your basic + DA based on minimum wages . This was the outcome of the famous case . As far as I understand your query - you asked can minimum wages be more than minimum wages as notified under the act , the answer is NO . Once you have wages more than notified as per the act , it doesn't qualify as minimum wages
[26/12 11:18] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Participant 4 - since the judgment of Airfreight is in place , if you have your gross more than minimum wages , there is no compulsion to have DA component . However , note that Sp.allow may be considered as DA and PF applicable on Sp.Allowance



[26/12 11:20] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Pratik, is standing order act applicable only in manufacturing or even for the non manufacturing sector as definition say industries and also ask to refer payment of wages Act for clarity, also can you please help me whether not having gratuity insurance amount to non compliance ?



[26/12 11:35] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Dear Govind -
As far as standing orders applicability is concerned , it is applicable to Factories Act and other Organisation as covered under payment of wages act as an industry . Other establishment are required to follow model standing orders and service rules




[26/12 11:21] participant 13: Pratik my query is only basic + da can't be consider as Mw componet
[26/12 11:32] participant 9: Participant 9 here: so would that mean if Basic +special amount exceeds 10k the employee has an option not to opt for PF (assuming he/she is not already a member)
[26/12 11:38] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Shashi - again just to correct Basic + DA is minimum wage component as per said notification . However , once you have more than minimum wages , they are to be considered as a whole and not just minimum wages . The leave encashment , deductions, overtime would be based on total gross rather than just minimum wages (basic +Da)


[26/12 11:40] participant 9: Participant 9 here: I know many organisations make leave encashment payments only on Basic plus DA is that non compliance?
[26/12 11:40] Pratik, Guest Speaker: If Basic is 10000
HRA - 3000
Conveyance -800
Medical 1200 
Sp. Allowance - 7000
Total gross - 22000

Then PF would see Sp.allow as DA and ask you to pay PF on 5000
Basic 10000+sp.allowance 5000
[26/12 11:40] Pratik, Guest Speaker: That is a noncompliance
[26/12 11:41] Pratik, Guest Speaker: It's like deducting only Basic + DA is he is absent or taking leave
[26/12 11:41] Pratik, Guest Speaker: If*
[26/12 11:44] participant 9: Participant 9 here: thanks for clarification



[26/12 11:47] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Thanks Pratik



[26/12 11:49] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I am happy and amazed to see so many queries and participation on working day , hope I am quick enough to clarify
[26/12 11:49] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Another query related to Maternity Benefit Act. As far as I know, one cannot club 6 weeks pregnant delivery leave and 6 weeks post delivery leave together. Please correct me if I am missing out something



[26/12 11:50] participant 14: Still I am awaiting for your response.


[26/12 11:53] Pratik, Guest Speaker: As far as Maternity Benefit act is concerned , no female employee can work during the seiz weeks immediately following the date of her delivery


[26/12 11:54] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Six *
[26/12 11:55] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Employer also should not give ardous long hours of work prior to date of delivery
[26/12 11:55] Pratik, Guest Speaker: In Most of the companies , female employees go 1 month prior to date of delivery and continue 2 months post delivery
[26/12 11:57] Pratik, Guest Speaker: As far as I know pre-natal leave for 6 weeks is not compulsory but post natal 6 weeks is compulsory


[26/12 12:09] participant 11: Thats what I understand too
[26/12 12:09] participant 11: By the way...one of my query seems to be missed out...so sharing it again
[26/12 12:09] participant 11: Pratik - can PF office levy penalty to the Orgn, if the monthly contribution is not cleared by the bank by the due date ?
[26/12 12:17] Pratik, Guest Speaker: The submission stamp is most important rather than transfer stamp . PF office may hold enquiry on this under Sec 7 A , but submission justification should not amount to penalty by them 
Ideal solution is to have bank account in SBI to avoid any such kind of issues under PF , ESI PT , IT and service tax



[26/12 12:28] participant 11: As per PF commissioner, it is the responsibility of emploer to ensure that the bank clears the payment within due date + 5 grace days....so employers should accordingly pay in advance



[26/12 12:28] Pratik, Guest Speaker: We are coming up with comply4hr conclave soon at Delhi / Gurgaon where industry experts as well as commissioners of PF , ESI labour are speakers and share their knowledge . We had a maiden launch on September 12th in Mumbai and was attended by more than 175 HR professionals
[26/12 12:29] participant 15: Participant 15 from EFG. There are a few lesser known Acts that are fiercely chased when the GLO does not see non compliances. They are Child Labour Act in Central India states & Interstate Workers Migration Act in South Indian States. What safeguards do we take in these cases? Your advise please


[26/12 12:30] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Well have fought such arguments with asst PF commissioners on those grounds under sec 7 a enquiry . Have pushed it back . However safest is to have SBI account for statutory payments as suggested



[26/12 12:32] participant 15: Which are the bare essential Abstracts of various Acts that any office must display. Where do we showcase it?


[26/12 12:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Participant 15 you will get all abstracts on www.comply4hr.com after you subscribe for FREE


[26/12 12:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: You need to display in entrance or most conspicuous place
[26/12 12:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Ideally shops & establishment in entrance and rest in cafeteria which is most conspicuous



[26/12 12:38] Ashish Gakrey: Guys...thank u so much for this great interaction going on n sure all query getting answered..btw I have kept theprovision for lunch break 1pm - 2pm for guest speaker...but Pratik is so enthusiast that he would like to continue this so same applicable for you guys...also other members (mute) to come forward to ask any query related to HR Compliances...Pratik would b happy to answer. He is here with us till 9pm...Ask later in a day if not now but ask if you have any query related to HR Compliances....special thanks to Pratik to be so quick and upto the point to answers all question..great going...keep it up...



[26/12 12:40] Pratik, Guest Speaker: The only compliance under Child Labour act is maintaining NIL register and saying no child employed . As far as interstate migrant worker is concerned , if it is employed through a contractor from different state than current state then it's applicable



[26/12 12:40] Pratik, Guest Speaker: ASHISH , always there to share and gain known
[26/12 12:40] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Knowledge *
[26/12 12:48] Pratik, Guest Speaker: For complete reckoner of leaves provision pan India , refer www.comply4hr.com/reckoners.asp



[26/12 12:48] Ashish Gakrey: Pratik..Proud 2hv u as as Guest Speaker on HR Shapers 2nd time. Really appreciate.....




[26/12 12:50] participant 16: Is it mandatory to have Welfare Officer in a female oriented production facility?
[26/12 12:55] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Welfare officer is only required if the headcount of the factory / plant / production facility is more than 500, irrespective of male/ female worker



[26/12 13:03] participant 14: Hi Participant 14 here from ABC 
Q: what could be the provision for those who are working at factories, construction sites etc but not covered under ESI act 1953 ? 
How EC act 1923 covers them ?
[26/12 13:03] Participant 2: Just to add all MBA-HRs are not qualified Welfare Officers as per Act. There are specified Institutes/Univ/Colleges under the Act/rules



[26/12 13:04] participant 17: Hi Pratik, Participant 17 here (ex-zenta) currently working with a leading IT co
Wanted to check on point to keep in mind while managing demerger or separation of company in two entity's?


[26/12 13:16] Pratik, Guest Speaker: EC , 2010 covers all non implemented ESI , construction sites , etc , applicable only to workmen and employees upto supervisor cadre



[26/12 13:18] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hi guys ,we will take a break of half hour and resume at 1.45-2.00 pm



[26/12 13:22] Ashish Gakrey: Yup Pratik...you can take....break mangta hai...2.15-2.30pm would be fine...guys - hold down till then...


[26/12 13:26] participant 11: Participant 2 - send me the real ones


[26/12 13:30] Participant 2: U r most welcome



[26/12 14:23] Ashish Gakrey: You can go and register yourself for FREE on www.comply4hr.com

It's an entire encyclopedia of HR Compliances n Labour Laws...


[26/12 14:23] participant 14: If an organisation doesn't follow EC act and didn't provide any compensation to them ( service engineer), is there any possibility to face any legal action??



[26/12 14:26] Ashish Gakrey: Wait guys...Pratik yet to be back fm break...I know v all waiting for him to join back....hold down ur query till then...



[26/12 14:36] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hello Participant 17 , how are you . Merger and de- merger is a complete different discussion all together - major things to be ensured is consolidation of PF code numbers , continuity of Gratuity , alignment of salary structures , etc



[26/12 14:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Also policies to do with leaves and bonus to be in lines of compliances under the respective provisions



[26/12 14:38] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Participant 14 organisationa have to cough up lacs  of rupees as directed by EC board depending upon the extent of injury and experience of the workmen. Highly recommend to have insurance



[26/12 14:39] participant 17: Doing fine Pratik,
Yes, mainly looking from compliance perspective.


[26/12 14:39] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Participant 17 , your full name is enough to tell and no need of specifying



[26/12 14:39] participant 14: Thanks



[26/12 14:43] Ashish Gakrey: Pratik is back now for post lunch session.....over to both of u guys...




[26/12 15:10] participant 18: This is Participant 18 - how to handle PF/Gratuity in case of long term overseas deputation where salary is not processed in India



[26/12 15:11] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hang on guys was in a concall



[26/12 15:14] participant 18: Also is there any special provision given for IT granting automatic exemption from maintaining leave' attendance & salary register in physical format


[26/12 15:25] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I have clarified that earlier , you need to seek exemption and no special provision in Maharshtra



[26/12 15:26] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Whereas Karnataka has blanket exemption to maintain In computerized manner



[26/12 15:27] Ashish Gakrey: Ashish Gakrey here- 2 queries...1 - LTA - act is silent in terms of how many days leaves 2b considered while claiming LTA... whether 3 or 5days.... 2. We have flexi components 2b declared and paid as taxable n non-taxable..the declaration window open only one time in year / beginning of the year...if declared either way v make the payment accordingly...what if not declared by employee when asked...can v pay as taxable amt monthly or end of year...



[26/12 15:28] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Once the employee leaves from the Indian company and goes overseas , he ceases to be an employee of Indian company and he has to withdraw PF for migration. As far as gratuity is concerned , employee can get continuity letter of parent company and once he is back in india , he needs to be getting continuity letter to avail the benefit of gratuity over the years out of which some years would have been overseas


[26/12 15:29] Pratik, Guest Speaker: LTA has to be given in 4 block period in 4 years , 2 are exempted under sec 10 aaa of income tax


[26/12 15:29] Pratik, Guest Speaker: LTA has to be 5 days and not 3 days
[26/12 15:30] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Refer income tax act on proper provisions under Sec 10(14) for LTA



[26/12 15:33] Ashish Gakrey: Pratik - some org paying LTA for 3 days...act has mentioned anything about no of days...
[26/12 15:35] Pratik, Guest Speaker: You are right Ashish , industry standard is 5 or more than 5 days , then eligible for LTA



[26/12 15:36] participant 9: Participant 9 here: check if it os working days or calendar days


[26/12 15:36] participant 9: Participant 9 here: the act doesnt mandate no of days, however considering the good old laws 1.5 days train journey bothways 3 days hence reasonable tim 5 days



[26/12 15:36] Ashish Gakrey: Ok



[26/12 15:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Correct participant 9 , you are truly Participant 9t
[26/12 15:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I have not come across companies having 3 days LTA , it's generally 5 and more .



[26/12 15:39] participant 9: Participant 9 here: when I was managing OPS I had someone claim for a road travel from Mumbai to KOLKATTA and back in 5 days ;)



[26/12 15:45] Ashish Gakrey: Guys..here is live Pratik Vaidya - our guest speaker of 2nd express chat session...he is busy answering all queries of both groups members....


[26/12 15:45] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Lol !!!
[26/12 15:46] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Need some palm greasing now .... Oops Palm massage



[26/12 15:48] Ashish Gakrey: Haaaa...Pratik...u order on Flipkart...I will pay...


[26/12 15:48] Participant 2: Pratik...U can download whatsapp on laptop and reply


[26/12 15:50] Ashish Gakrey: Desktop version 2b introduced...not in the market as of now...



[26/12 15:51] participant 14: Can use bluestack



[26/12 15:51] Participant 2: Yeah, I was about to say that



[26/12 15:52] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Correct



[26/12 15:52] Pratik, Guest Speaker: But I am improving my mobile typing skills



[26/12 15:54] Participant 2: Pratik..
Many IT co's ask fresh engineers to sign Service Agreement for specific period post their training of 2-3 months. Is this enforceable, if yes on what grounds, if no on what grounds?



[26/12 15:54] participant 14: I was about to ask
About bond sign


[26/12 15:56] Pratik, Guest Speaker: There is no provisions for bonds to be signed .



[26/12 15:56] Participant 2: Never use word " Bond". Its always an agreement as both parties are well aware of the facts. 
Whether it amounts to Bonded Labour or not Pratik will answer



[26/12 15:57] Pratik, Guest Speaker: They don't come under provisions of Bonded labour act , Sec 2(g)


[26/12 15:57] participant 19: We called as service agreement



[26/12 15:58] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Bonded labour is only if service is arising out of loan or debt or advance



[26/12 15:58] participant 18: We call it service agreement



[26/12 15:58] participant 14: Here we called it service bond



[26/12 15:58] Participant 2: Is it legally right was my question?



[26/12 16:00] Pratik, Guest Speaker: If this is understood and the agreement is such a way that he has to be trained and have commitment of certain period where Organisation has spent loads of amount on training , it is justifiable but not fully recoverable in case employee breaches it and leaves .

It is more of deterrence


[26/12 16:03] participant 14: I am giving an example: 
We send our engineers to Japan for 1 week training. 
But they required to signed a service bond for 2 years or have to pay INR 25000 in case they fail to serve for 2 years.



[26/12 16:03] Participant 2: Thats what my question...as a deterant ok. 
If some one breaches can company sue him in court of law and recover cost of training fully or partially depending on no of months or years left to complete agreed period?



[26/12 16:05] Participant 2: Participant 14..
If the liquidated damaged is small amount employeemay pay and leave. But if its huge than they abscond !!



[26/12 16:05] Pratik, Guest Speaker: No one is asking on Shram Suvidha portal ??
[26/12 16:06] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Correct Participant 2 , this comes under contract act and not labour laws actually


[26/12 16:06] participant 11: It is normally called as Travel Bond and it may not stand in the court of law, but as an organisation, we can still do it


[26/12 16:06] Pratik, Guest Speaker: It's more of a civil suit



[26/12 16:07] participant 11: The more important is the language used for the bond / agreement



[26/12 16:07] participant 14: @ participant 2
If they abscond, can an organisation take legal action ?



[26/12 16:07] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Exactly , it is just a deterrent , many employees have left it and companies have not been able to do much . We need stronger laws


[26/12 16:08] Ashish Gakrey: Retain all ur wishes as well for pratik bcoz Pratik is joining us on 1st Feb for Mcdowell Durbey Race @ Mahalaxmi Race Course followed by drink at Gokul / Lepold Cafe and dinner at Bade Miya / Bagdadi...



[26/12 16:09] participant 14: Oh great.
[26/12 16:09] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Please spare me from your queries that time , ask whatever today



[26/12 16:10] Participant 2: Thats why some cos take signature of two people to stand as surerity. If an employee is absconding and dont pay, these people will have to pay
[26/12 16:11] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Just kidding , open for discussions and knowledge sharing , anywhere , anytime



[26/12 16:12] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Again, that's completely debatable as the two people who stand surety may or may not be part of your company . How would you sue or trace them



[26/12 16:12] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Banks are not been able to implement guarantors fully if the main person absconds and doesn't pay EMI
[26/12 16:14] Participant 2: Yea...some large IT cos have done it succesfully. But you need large infrastuctute support to do all these things.



[26/12 16:14] Participant 2: Infrastructure I meant



[26/12 16:15] participant 14: Even public sector organisation like oil, ongc, sbi do hv bond system.



[26/12 16:15] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Yes they have , I know few


[26/12 16:18] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Again it's more of service agreement and not to be confused with bonded labour



[26/12 16:18] participant 20: Participant 20 from ABC.. Just wanted to clarify a query..Which authority collects building and construction related cess payment..



[26/12 16:23] Pratik, Guest Speaker: 1% cess of the total work value has to be deposited with bank of india Alongwith application for registration to commissioner of labour office



[26/12 16:24] Participant 2: Is it Labour Welfare cess?


[26/12 16:27] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Correct participant 2
[26/12 16:28] Pratik, Guest Speaker: In mumbai it is at bank of india tardeo branch and bank of maharashtra , BKC branch



[26/12 16:35] Pratik, Guest Speaker: ASHISH , have shared LTA guidelines to your email id
[26/12 16:40] Participant 2: I am not sure ..just chk..there is some mention of no of days leave in Income Tax while granting exemption on LTA. The objective is employee should travel on leave.



[26/12 16:41] participant 11: Yes...annual / paid leave


[26/12 16:42] Participant 2: Thats why we ask employee to apply for 5 days leave while claiming LTA. Its not as per any Labour laws



[26/12 16:44] Pratik, Guest Speaker: There is no mention under sec 10(14) of income tax act at all on number of days



[26/12 16:46] Pratik, Guest Speaker: But 5 is minimum where most of the companies give , ASHISH can you share the FAQs which is mailed to you
[26/12 16:47] participant 11: The logic of 5-6 days is in use since old days when we had primarily govt. Orgns providing this benefit. The understanding was that a person may require 2 days to travel back and forth and remaining days at home :-)



[26/12 16:49] participant 9: Participant 9 here: the bigger question is-  could companies deny payment since it is less than 5 days?


[26/12 16:50] Participant 2: When you claim leave travel Assistance, there has to be travel, which means absence and leave.
Now with air travel, even 2-3 days leave is also sufficient I think



[26/12 16:52] participant 9: Participant 9 here: precisely my thought, how could we be employee friendly in such situations. Look at the spirit and not the letter. My2paise
[26/12 16:55] participant 18: The two criteria are - leave and travel.


[26/12 16:56] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: I think signing such contract "bond" falls under purview of Contract Act



[26/12 16:59] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Yes, you are right Govind , but it's just an agreement between two parties and not under labour laws



[26/12 17:00] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Since there is no minimum criteria , leave and travel together if it is there , 3 days should be fine


[26/12 17:03] Participant 2: 3 days 2 nights package tour fits in 3 days leave !
Also depends how big the LTA amount, otherwise one day may be also sufficient!!



[26/12 17:18] participant 18: Does temporary/contract engagement attract provisions of pf


[26/12 17:24] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Employee definition is wide enough under EPF act to cover all types of emplyees including temp , casual , contract , from day one



[26/12 17:24] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Same with ESI as well



[26/12 17:24] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Includes trainees but excludes any apprentices under apprenticeship Act


[26/12 17:28] Participant 2: Oh...u gave clue Pratik.
Is Apprentiship Act applicable to IT/ITES co?



[26/12 17:30] participant 14: One simple question: 
Is it necessary or any rule to sign on ID card by the issuing authority??



[26/12 17:32] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Yes, it is applicable to IT/ITES companies



[26/12 17:33] participant 21: Do all companies have co-pay in mediclaim policy or it depends on company to company


[26/12 17:33] participant 11: However, i guess we have to wait till any notification from the appropriate authority


[26/12 17:33] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Check for details of kind of apprentices you can hire on www.apprentice-engineer.com , in fact many IT/ITES companies across mindspace , thane , Powai and seepz got notices under Apprentices act


[26/12 17:34] participant 11: Mediclaim does not come under any labour statute


[26/12 17:34] Participant 2: I had got notice in 1992 when i was with TU



[26/12 17:35] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Since mediclaim is purely out of purview of labour laws , it can be anything , however , recommended to have basic provisions of employee compensation act and maternity benefit be given by organization



[26/12 17:35] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Pratik, what happens if an organisation pay 8.33% of basic as ex- gratia bonus and not paying 20% and declaring it defacto in appointment letter? I guess it is non compliance as 8.33 is minimum percentage and an organisation need to justify for the rate? 
2. If an organization is complying with all labour laws but never registered or notified to authority for the required laws such as registration and payment of gratuity act , maintaining register etc. Then what happens? Now, government has started issuing LIN under shram seva portal and asking to file return online, is it advisable? Isn't there risk of exposure to labour commissioner and inviting trouble for the organisation who never bothered about maintaining register?


[26/12 17:36] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Of course there is a risk , but Shram seva is prospective and not retrospective except for PF and Esi


[26/12 17:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Bonus is purely calculated as per profitability of the establishment  and they need to do set on and set off after allocating surplus from gross profit


[26/12 17:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: It is complete non compliance to mention only 8.33% as bonus applicable
[26/12 17:42] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: I think most of the organisation comply with pf and ESIC the major issues are record maintenance of other statutory law


[26/12 17:43] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Call us , do check www.comply4hr.com/edoc for pan india registers maintenance on cloud



[26/12 17:43] participant 22: Rakesh from ABC -@DEB - it is mandatory to have signature on the ID cards under Bombay Shop n Establishment act. Pratik, pls confirm.


[26/12 17:43] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Thanks


[26/12 17:44] Pratik, Guest Speaker: No provision for iCards under Bombay shops and establishment act other than hotels and restaurants


[26/12 17:45] participant 14: @ rakesh 
I have gone through the bombay shop & establishment act, but its mentioned only for restaurants eatery etc



[26/12 17:45] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Ditto Participant 14 
[26/12 17:45] participant 14: J


[26/12 17:45] Pratik, Guest Speaker: You all are already experts !!


[26/12 17:47] participant 22: Thanks



[26/12 17:55] Participant 2: To have genuinity of ID cards, better sign it. Otherwise people may misuse it.



[26/12 17:58] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Not required to have iCard statutorily but need to authenticate anyways


[26/12 18:00] participant 22: Ok


[26/12 18:04] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hello Friends , would be able to answer for last 20 minutes , will resume post 7.30 pm
[26/12 18:06] Participant 2: Appoint one



[26/12 18:06] participant 11: I think an extetnal women working with an NGO can be allowed...



[26/12 18:06] participant 23: Participant 14, you can select other one


[26/12 18:07] participant 23: And take help of NGO


[26/12 18:07] Pratik, Guest Speaker: It can be any female employee of any department or group organization


[26/12 18:07] participant 23: I have ICC committee


[26/12 18:08] participant 23: Correct pratik


[26/12 18:08] Pratik, Guest Speaker: It can be anywhere in india


[26/12 18:08] participant 14: Okey thanks.


[26/12 18:08] Pratik, Guest Speaker: NGO can't be presiding officer


[26/12 18:08] participant 11: Okay


[26/12 18:08] participant 24: The act is applicable for men too


[26/12 18:08] participant 23: I know


[26/12 18:08] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Has to be internal employee for the ICC


[26/12 18:08] Pratik, Guest Speaker: No the Act is not applicable to men


[26/12 18:09] participant 23: Not applicable for men


[26/12 18:09] participant 24: Ok thanks..


[26/12 18:09] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Only talks about aggrieved woman and not man


[26/12 18:09] participant 23: I am doing one enquiry under this.


[26/12 18:10] Pratik, Guest Speaker: In absence of ICC , matter can be escalated to LCC


[26/12 18:10] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Great Rahul , should share your experience and insights



[26/12 18:10] participant 23: But better to have domestic enquiry under standing order Act.


[26/12 18:12] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Domestic enquiry is nothing to do with ICC unless you want to throw the perpetrator



[26/12 18:13] Pratik, Guest Speaker: ICC enquiry is enough as it is governed by law and provisions , no need of separate domestic enquiry.


[26/12 18:13] participant 14: And is it mandatory to form ICC at every work location ?? 
Coz we have ICC only at HQ location .



[26/12 18:15] Pratik, Guest Speaker: The aggrieved woman would demand payment as it deem fits once the enquiry by ICC is completed , failure to pay  the same would have prosecution under Indian Penal Code



[26/12 18:16] participant 23: SH Act requires registration of complaint in Police, which Is not advisable, only ICC has to conduct investigation under Act, and employer has to further investigate under SO Act.


[26/12 18:17] Pratik, Guest Speaker: ICC can be one in every city or overall , depending upon the size of the organisation and ability to conduct enquiry , you can't conduct remote enquiry for sensitive topic



[26/12 18:18] Ashish Gakrey: Guys....Pratik wud be back by 7.30pm....hold down ur queries till then....thank u members n Pratik for lovely knowledge sharing express chat session...kindly wait till 7.30pm to resume...



[26/12 18:24] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: You must have a women as president our policy is gender neutral even a man can file complaint for harassment beyond sexual too
[26/12 18:25] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Yes, it is mandatory to appoint ICC even in the regional location one member must be from NGO


[26/12 18:25] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: ICC committee is a kind of quasi judicial body


[26/12 19:06] Ashish Gakrey: Here is our guest speaker another photo but vacation / weekend / masti wala photo...the objective to share photo 2 make conversation more lively n engaging... but it doesn't mean I share all 200 members photo wid him...  ...njoy last session of express chat on HR Compliances...Pratik will resume at 7.30pm n will be wid us till 9pm...



[26/12 19:12] Ashish Gakrey: You can go and register yourself for FREE on www.comply4hr.com

It's an entire encyclopedia of HR Compliances n Labour Laws...


[26/12 19:13] ‪Participant 24: Thanks for sharing Ashish..


[26/12 19:28] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Where did you manage To pick that pic from !!!


[26/12 19:29] participant 9: It was on wikileaks ;)



[26/12 19:31] participant 23: Pratik, for workmen, i think it is always advisable to have domestic enquiry along with SH investigation and if proved guilty, punish under SO Act, any comments...



[26/12 19:33] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Punishment under POSH is more stringent then Standing orders act


[26/12 19:34] participant 23: But practically, implementation of POSH, is difficult, and competency of PO is also question



[26/12 19:35] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I am back 


[26/12 19:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: You need to follow POSH for any complaints on sexual harassment and cannot have enquiry under SO . Since its a sensitive topic , it needs Proper treatment . There are LCC also available and final authority would be commissioner of labour


[26/12 19:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Organisation would be literally be axed if you don't have ICC or don't follow compliance


[26/12 19:37] participant 25: Pratik...Is commission paid to Directors be considered part of annual guranteed wages? Therefore PF reconable?


[26/12 19:39] participant 9: People with greater 10k basic + DA can opt out of PF (Note; this is not a correct information, the revised limit is monthly Rs. 15000/- (Basic + DA) 


[26/12 19:39] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Any component and amount more than 15000 basic is optional


[26/12 19:39] Pratik, Guest Speaker: It is 15000 and not 10000


[26/12 19:39] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Mandatory is basic+ da upto 15000


[26/12 19:40] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Please read the blog on new PF amendment of 15000 on comply4hr in blog section


[26/12 19:41] participant 25: Thanks...Pratik...


[26/12 19:42] participant 9: Oops yes revised PF


[26/12 19:44] participant 14: But if someone's basic is more thn 15k but he/ she is an existing member then ???


[26/12 19:45] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Need to contribute upto 15000


[26/12 19:46] participant 14: 1800 only


[26/12 19:46] Pratik, Guest Speaker: If you reduce upto 15000 basic wages , it's not considered violation of Sec 12 of the act . There is a case law on that


[26/12 19:47] Participant 2: Yea, however does not bar u from contributing higher amounts as its tax free


[26/12 19:48] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Correct


[26/12 19:48] Pratik, Guest Speaker: PF is always good


[26/12 19:49] Pratik, Guest Speaker: As per recent notification , the new interest rate is 8.75% per annum


[26/12 19:49] Participant 2: Pf and Super Annuation are the best for Sr. Exec


[26/12 19:50] Pratik, Guest Speaker: It's best for all as it gives cumulative interest which is good saving after working for some time



[26/12 19:51] participant 14: The Employees' Provident Fund Organisation has proposed sweeping changes in practices that are more than half-a-century old as it looks to widen the social security net by bringing more people into its fold besides encouraging the regularisation of lowincome, blue-collar workers. It has suggested that the compulsory 12 per cent of salary paid by employees to EPFO be reduced or even waived for a certain period.
[26/12 19:51] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I am contributing voluntary PF over my actual PF contribution which is good.


[26/12 19:52] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Yes this is a suggestion no notification or approval on that as of now



[26/12 19:52] participant 14: Yup


[26/12 19:53] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I doubt it will be implemented as there is strong union lobby opposing it


[26/12 19:54] participant 14: But they can keep it optional


[26/12 19:55] participant 14: For lower income group, it will change their take home.


[26/12 19:56] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hmmm let's see


[26/12 20:22] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: For PSHAW Act, you cannot mix with domestic inquiry as per standing order, this is my understanding. Pratik can guide us further


[26/12 20:24] participant 23: Yes, we can


[26/12 20:24] participant 23: It is not mixed



[26/12 20:25] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Pratik, please clarify, once somebody contributing, even if somebody cross basic + DA of 15000 he cannot opt out of pf contribution



[26/12 20:25] participant 23: It is completion of investigation under SH Act, then if found guilty, enquiry under SO and then punishment


[26/12 20:26] Pratik, Guest Speaker: If he is already a member of PF cannot opt out at all


[26/12 20:27] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Yes, thanks Pratik


[26/12 20:28] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: I feel domestic inquiry is organizations choice but inquiry and following deadline and guideline under prevention of sexual harassment Act is mandatory


[26/12 20:28] Pratik, Guest Speaker: I have clarified earlier that once you are under POSH , no need of SO


[26/12 20:28] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Correct


[26/12 20:28] participant 26: Balaji Here : On the agreements, can we have an agreement to cover the VISA related expenses and is this enforceable ?

[26/12 20:29] Pratik, Guest Speaker: It doesn't make sense , it's actually waste of time


[26/12 20:29] participant 23: Pratik, in case of WC, for workmen having permanent disability, is it necessary to deposit money under Act to WC commissioner or handover to workmen under agreement signed with him



[26/12 20:31] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: The whole concept of perception under SHAWP Act is vague, it does not matter what you said or what you did, all matters how the woman has perceived and understood and for committee its a challenging job


[26/12 20:36] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Right , and damages is upto her to decide if


[26/12 20:37] participant 23: Agree


[26/12 20:37] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Hello all , I have to call off as need to go out , but hope have answered as many queries as possible


[26/12 20:38] participant 23: Thanks Pratik


[26/12 20:40] Govind, http://www.tbdindia.com: Thanks Pratik for this wonderful session. Ashish please share group 1 chat too.


[26/12 20:41] participant 14: It was great to have you between us. Wonderful session.


[26/12 20:42] Ashish Gakrey: Hey Pratik..thank you so much...now I wud request Participant 2 Kanbur to do vote of thanks on the behalf of HR Shapers Group TWO....


[26/12 20:42] Ashish Gakrey: Participant 2 - over to you now...


[26/12 20:57] participant 17: Thanks Pratik. Great chatting with you.


[26/12 20:57] Participant 2: It was great learning for all of us. To be very frank never expected 12 hours discussion on dry subject like Labour laws compliances


[26/12 20:57] Participant 2: You made it so interesting by providing varied examples and sharing experience.


[26/12 20:58] Participant 2: Sorry, our members did not allow you to have lunch and tea ;)



[26/12 20:58] Participant 2: Once again big Thank you


[26/12 20:58] Participant 2: Dear Pratik. On behalf of HR Shaper Gr II, let me formally thank you



[26/12 20:59] participant 14: I am always interested for IR part. So it will be beneficial for me a lot.


[26/12 20:59] Pratik, Guest Speaker: Don't worry , I had all. Looking forward to meet most of you on 1st Feb


[26/12 21:01] Participant 2: Pratik, some of us have moved from Labour officer-Personnel Officer- HR Officer career and hence this subject is close to our heart



[26/12 21:01] participant 27: Thanks pratik. It was really insightful.



[26/12 21:04] Ashish Gakrey: Hey Pratik...so nice of you...enjoy weekend n HNY wishes fm HR Shapers....all looking fwd 2 meet u on 1 Feb at Race Course at McDowell Durbey Race...


[26/12 21:29] Participant 2: Thanks Ashish



[26/12 22:03] Participant 6:  Thanks Ashish and Pratik 



[26/12 22:38] participant 28: What a session! So much value-add.. Thank you for arranging this guys 


[26/12 22:38] participant 19: Three cheers to Ashish



[26/12 23:07] Ashish Gakrey: all for u HR Community.......


[26/12 23:08] participant 29: Lots of learning and refresher for so many points from this  first chat session ....thanks Ashish and Pratik 


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